Mentioning the Catholic Church when discussing political matters doesn´t endorse me to non-Catholics, I realize that.
But what about this:
In order to take a position against the Catholic Church on the matters of Israel and Zionism – and also on the matter of financial oppression and Imperialism, which I will discuss in my next post,- one should know, what her position is.
(I promise I will discuss the matter in the comment section with anybody, who cares to comment. I will keep all comments and answer them, no matter how critical, under the conditions the commenter will not denigrate God, Christ and the Virgin Mary nor the prophets and sages revered in Islam, and he or she will not use obscenities either.
Otherwise, he will have to exercise his right to “free speech” some place else, and I exercise my right to not listen to obscenities and blasphemy.)
It´s my opinion, that we live in times of severe crisis, and that we, religious and secular people, alike will have to find some common ground, from which we together struggle against a terrible inhuman system, which is threatening to draw as all into the catastrophe of a new World War. Whatever divides us at this moment cannot be so big, that it justifies us to fight and hate one another, while our whole world is about to go down the drains.
No doubt our differences are important, and we do not and cannot lay them aside totally. But I think we have to reserve them for later.
In order to cooperate, we do not have to join the same organizations and agree to a single program. It might even be a lot better to work for peace from a very diverse spectrum of opinions, a decentralized approach. But we need to stop bitching against one another.
We need to stop falling for the “divide and conquer” tricks of the war-party.
Maybe we can show one another a bit of tolerance and respect, so cooperation on important matters can become easier.
One important aspect of respect is, to really be interested in the whole story, and not just read the tiny out-of-context quotes the main-line media presents.
The mainline media does everything to frame all social matters in such a way, it will keep ordinary people divided along ethnic and sectarian lines – unable to understand one another, unable to join hands for a common cause, a cause we ordinary people all over the world actually agree upon.
There is no doubt in my mind, that the official Catholic church, with it´s center in the Vatican of Rome, opposes Israel´s crimes against the Palestinian people. The Church opposes the oppression, the land-theft, the expulsion, the discrimination and the open, brutal war-fare.
In this the Church stands far more on the side of the Palestinian people, both the Christians as well as the Muslims, than ever on the side of Israel.
On the page “The Catholic View on Palestine”, I quoted a call for written by members of the Catholic peace organization “Pax Christi”. This one I set on top on the list of quotes.
Different from many other Catholic organizations, “Pax Christi International” operates from out of the very center of the Church. The organization works to counter all wars and all forms of oppression, military or economic oppression, by peaceful means. While “Pax Christi” is far more outspoken in it´s calls and it´s critizism than the Vatican, still all declarations of “Pax Christi” are sanctioned by the official Church.
At this moment, according to “Pax Christi” and Vatican sources, the political solution to the conflict between Israel and Palestine, the Church endorses, seems to be a two-state-solution on the borders of before 1967. However, more and more people working for justice in Palestine, are coming to the conclusion, that Israel has, by his constant building of illegal settlements, created “facts on the ground”, which make a two-state-solution no longer viable. And in the long term a single state of two ethnicities and three major religions, all enjoying equal citizen rights, will be the only just alternative.
No matter, which one of these alternatives in the end become the most viable and accepted by both sides, the Church will endorse it.
For the Church sees herself to be tasked – by Christ Himself – to become an instrument of peace.
The Church believes, that peace cannot be achieved by open confrontation, but it must be sought through compromise and reconciliation.
No matter, how just the Palestinian cause and how unjust the Israeli cause, according to the Church, both sides must be heard and considered.
“There cannot be peace without justice, and there cannot be justice without forgiveness”, says the Pope.
The Church believes that victory against injustice can only be won by non-violent means.
Of course, there are many people out there, who will see the Church´s call for total non-violence in a struggle against violent oppression and the worst kind of injustice, as hypocritical, given the Church´s own violent history in her medieval past.
And I can understand this view by non-Catholics. With her history she has brought this kind of distrust and anger upon herself.
And this is exactly the point:
The Church has a history of a violent past.
But every time, when Church officials justified brutal violence against some perceived problems, facing the Church or it´s membership, the long-term repercussions of her those actions made things worse.
When Christianity became state-religion in the Roman Empire, some tribes within the Empire, like the Saxons, were converted “by fire and sword”. This had been a very, very bad idea, since a forced conversion is no conversion at all. Just as bad an idea was the forced “conversion” of the Spanish Jews after the Christian armies reconquered Spain from the Islamic Moores.
The Crusades, the purpose of which was supposedly the protection of Christian pilgrims in the Holy Land, became an absolutely indefensible orgy of violence.
They consequently bought not only a many centuries lasting distrust between Muslims and Christians, they also brought a curse upon the Church. It was a curse of her own making, in form of a group of neo-pagan, man-hating, imperialistic, authoritarian sectarians, who first infiltrated and corrupted the Church thoroughly, and later on they fought openly and covertly against her.
When the Church then tried to fight against those infiltrators, once again using the means of violence, with torture and death-penalties, the result was at first, that some truly bad men, who truly had blood on their hands and an inhumane ideology in their minds, were made into martyrs, and hundreds, or even thousands, of innocent men and women were tortured and killed.
The long-term consequences of the inquisition and the hunt for “witches” and “heretics” over the centuries were even worse. They caused altogether even more devastation, suffering and loss of lives, namely when the man-hating ideology went underground.
Ever since, it has resurfaced over and over again in different forms, either in esoteric or in secular ideologies like the ones of Macchiavelli, Nietzsche, Malthus, Dalton, Mussolini, Hitler, Leo Strauss, Prince Phillip, Richard Perle, David Rockefeller or Henry Kissinger.
It is exactly with this history, that the Church can say from her own experience, that violent methods do not work very well. No matter, how righteous one think´s one´s cause to be, and the church officials always thought their cause was righteous, the long-term consequences of the Church´s violence was, that they only became a breeding ground for more violence.
The violent history of the Church also caused, at least a temporary, a loss of the moral high ground.
And this violent history is also the main reason, why nowadays many decent and compassionate people in the world mistrust the Catholic Church and her good will.
This can´t be helped.
The only thing the Church can do, is learn from her own history and warn others of the mistake in using violent means to pursue an aim of true justice.
Now, the Church´s call for non-violence is understandable.
But why wouldn´t the Pope visit Gaza, when he came to Palestine this year?
This would after all have been a non-violent act of support for the Palestinian people.
The reason might be, that Israel would not allow it.
If the Pope had visited Gaza, he would have to have talked to the Hamas leadership in the same way as he has talked to the Fatah leadership and president Abbas.
This would have given Hamas more legitimacy in the eyes of the Catholic world. Israel wanted to prevent this kind of legitimacy at all costs.
If the Pope would have gone against the Israeli government in this, Israel would have let the Palestinian Christians suffer the consequences.
One other thing:
Shortly before the Pope´s visit to Palestine, the Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu made the prediction, that AlQaeda was planning to blow up the “Church of the Holy Sepulchre” in Jerusalem.
Now we know,that there is not a single true-believing Muslim in the whole wide world, who would ever even consider to do such a thing. Blowing up one of the most holy places in Christendom would seem absolutly insane for even the most fanatic Muslim, especially since the AlAqsa Mosque, one of the most holy sites in Islam, is practically right next door.
This means that those who would possibly blow up this church, they would not be Muslims.
But Muslims would be framed for it.
Such an attack on such a large pilgrim-site might kill hundreds, possibly thousands of people.
And while there is a possibility, the Church could protect this one church with better security, the Church will never be able to protect all local churches all over the world.
Now, everybody has the right to risk his or her own life, when standing up for truth and justice.
But the Pope is a symbolic figure. If he provokes certain ruthless people too much, he wouldn´t just be risking his life but the lives of many others.
I think, that he went as far on behalf of the Palestinian people, as he thought was possible under the circumstances without provoking retaliation.
I do understand, why some people, Catholics and non-Catholics alike, are disappointed that the Pope didn´t go any farther.
But from everything I read about him and from him, I´m certain, that Pope Benedict VI. is not a Zionist stooge.
Of course people can stick with this opinion, if they want to. Everybody has their own reasons for their own opinions. I only can tell you, what I think, and explain you, why I do think so.
While the Pope was called a Zionist stooge from one side, he was also called a Nazi-loving Anti-Semite from the other side, supposedly because he was once a member of the Hitler Youth.
And occasionally, I´ve seen him called both from the very same people.
Fact is, Pope Benedict joined the Hitler Youth, when he was a child of 13. And he stayed in there only for a few months, and he left on his own accord. The reason, why he joined at all, although he and his family were staunch Catholics, was probably to prevent his father, a small-town policeman, to get into trouble.
(B.t.w.his sister, a down-syndrome child, was killed in a Nazi-institution according to the Nazi policy of eliminating “unworthy life”.)
Now, to blame a 13 year old child living under a dictatorship that he had joined an organization, that was next to mandatory (those who didn´t join were endlessly harrassed), is in my lowly opinion just plain ridiculous. (Besides he wasn´t Pope then, was he?)
Personally, I would like to see the official Church in Rome, including the Pope, to be more outspoken on the issue of Palestine. However, I´m just an ordinary Catholic, I do not have all the information the Vatican is acting upon.
I´m sure, that there are many discussions going on in the Vatican about Palestine. I also trust, that many prayers are spoken in hope and faith, that God will guide the Church to do and say the right things.
And I truly believe, that in the end truth and justice will conquer all the lies.
And all injustice and oppression will end .
[...] in the end truth and justice will conquer all the lies. And all injustice and oppression will end . (original link) Professor’s Notes: Idealistic dreams that have already been dashed and smashed to dust and [...]
I like the tone of your article. The problem I see is this. How can we talk about what is need ed of us on this earth, when allot of us are are putting our faith in supperstition, and not be accountable for our own actions? How can we really apprecciate nature, and how long it took for it to evolve, when we give our idols credit for creating it. Furthermore, like you said earlier; how do we get the people who lead the flock, to talk about real issues.
Religion prevents us from evolving, to ask deep questions of ourselves, and others. It causes us to fight with each other, like one is superior over another. I see this as racism, a way to divide us. If religion was a good idea, wouldn’t have done things by now to enhance our real lives. Why do we go to a particular church, when all the denominations, and religions should instead be of similiar cause. If it were a true identity, then you would have only one church. So, I ask this; how is it possible to have this conversation unless we see religion for what it really is. There is history here; am I the only one who sees this history as violent. As a kid, all I remember was being scared to death of the words in the Bible. All the violence just turned me off of this stuff. I found a better way to love others, it was to look inside myself and take responsiablity.
Until a person can raise his hand and ask a question in church. Or better yet; we need a place for all people may go to gather. It should be a free zone where church is not. Then we may address our common problems, and look for real solutions.
I noticed you used the word opinion, as though some differ from your stance on a topic.
An opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with evidence, but which cannot be proved with that evidence.
I say we stop with this shallow opinion stuff, and stick with the facts here. Otherwise, we will get nowhere, all over again.
Sorry I did not collect all my thoughts before posting several times. I would like to share one more thought.
People are too dynamic, the world is too dynamic; to try to simply put a definition on it in words. It is wrong to label people, or the things we see. When doing so, we are selling ourselves short. We are much more than that title. Weather it be a religious person, a father, a son, a worker; we are all these things, and much more. When we focus, and use titles; we are focused on all the wrong things. The important stuff, is the stuff between the cracks.
What I see when looking out, is a bunch of symbiotic relationships that are mutually beneficial. This is not the case with man. Until we see that we are only a piece of the puzzle in nature, then we are doomed to become extinct. There is a guy my the name of Peter Kropktin, that blew away Charles Darwinn. He said that all animals require cooperation to survive. That about sums it up. It is not survival of the fitest; but instead, cooperation. What we have in common is key, not what is different, or say “better”.
Hallo skateboardkid
An opinion is an interpretation of the facts as you know them. I think everybody makes interpretations, even non-religious people.
If you want to address common problems and you exclude religious people, you will not have enough people to address anything.
Just like I cannot force you to share my belief that there is a God, who cares about humanity, so you cannot force others to share your belief, that there isn´t.
When I was a child, I did not read the Old Testament, except a few stories as told to children. The New Testament which actually is the core belief at least of Catholic Christianity did definitely not turn me off.
I see the Old Testament as an divinely inspired collection of parables, explaining me the world in metaphors.
I do not see God as a “superstition”. And faith in God does not hinder people to care for the earth´s environment, I think.
But faith that God cares for men and sees us as his special creation, the only one given intelligence to reflect on our existence and on the environment around us, gives a believer a certain perspective.
We can care for the environment the best we can, but environmentalism cannot come before respecting the rights of our fellow human beings to be able to fulfill their basic needs.
A Christian cannot become a Malthusian, who believes, that there are too many people on earth, and that the existence of man himself is the main environmental problem.
As you can surely see on WRH, this is exactly what we are coming to at the moment.
Thanks skateboardkid
for giving me the name of Peter Kroptkin. I remember reading something about it, and was thinking about posting on “cooperative evolution”, but I just didn´t remember the name of the scientist who had written about it.
I like your common sense defense of the Pope Benedicts so called nazi past. It was well written and rational. What a young man in the heart of nazi Germany did to survive that did not intale the killing of other innocent people is NO crime at all. And even I a staunch and Traditional Catholic did not know the info about his sisters death by the evolution beliveing eugenic butchers. That being said, to the topic of your article, the Pope isnt a stooge of zionism, he is the stooge of modernism and ecumanism. To critisize zionists is not considered ecumenical. The Church is paraylized not by politics but by false theology (belive it or not) Isreal is in fact the dopplganger of Nazi Germany, in its policys, economic systems, and nationalist zeal. The world would be a better place if it was in fact suppressed and abolished as a Nation state. Not at all the same thing as proposing the abolishment of a race of people….I speak of the politics and economics of the country. There is one threat to solid peace in the world…National Israel
Hallo Joseph Cox
I agree, at the moment, Israel´s actions are threatening world peace. And many people all over the world see Israel´s behavior as being similar to the behavior of the Nazis.
And I also think, that a one-state solution in Palestine, where Palestinians and Jews can live as equals, would be best, but this is not up to us.
We can only pray that a peaceful and just solution will be found soon.
Since I´m not a traditional Catholic, but an ordinary Catholic, I have read some of the things written by the Pope. I do not believe the Pope being anybody´s stooge.
And as I said, the Pope and the Vatican have critizised Israel many times.
What I see is much bigger than the beliefs in a God. My curiosity thus, has given me a bigger story to look at. And mt story allows me to take active part, and be responsible for my actions. I love others for who they are, and not who they are not.
I never said to exclude others from a people gathering. I simply said that religion is the only place where us people met; but we do not push our faiths to come to any conclusion that is bigger than our initial thoughts. I said alost all believe in a God, or another. And not the other way around.
Does religion prevent us from growing, and appreciating others and nature; sure it does. That is why you hesitated. And trust me, God would want you to use you best thinking in order to not mess up his creations. But if you believe he created all of this, then you will not know anything about your environment. You will not see the grand scheme of things. That is why the native people are so far ahead of us. They got along with nature. They did not own it, they respected it. I have yet tp find a person who is religious who did not act like they were above me. But me, on the other hand see this as an information war. Just like politics, it is not a matter of one’s opinion; it is a matter of good information, awareness, and dealing with the loss of what you thought was true, is not the case. When talking politics, I always try to understand first, and foremost; that people are misled. So why get mad at these people; it is not their fault. At least, not until you bring question to their facts, and they are then curious enough to research it further. But people want an easy way out. They want to BELIEVE that everything is so simple, that they are in control. It is not until you give up control, that you begin to really see.
I practice civics everyday. I lived, and learned from my family during life long abuse. And what I learned is key to almost everything. Domestic abuse is a great start into politics. Civics is what made Mark twain, John Denver, and George Carlin exceptional people.
Maybe a better question would be this. If I was to make a place for hundreds of people to gather, and talk. Would you as a religious person, feel comfortable there. Would you participate fully with me as a realist. Or would you say what we are doing is god’s work. You see, this is the problem. Self-righteousness. It is not that I am a bad person who does not see what you think you see. It is that I scare the very foundation of your whole world.
I heard a song that said we should just let it all fall. Then we can build it the way it should be, and not the way we want it to be.
A tree does not argue with another tree, to see if they should bend their leaves to obtain full benefit of the sun; they just do it.
Peter Kropktin was a really cool guy. he rebelled against his rich family. He was fed up with money, and all that it does. He traveled to Siberia to get away. What he was looking for was really neat. he wanted to see if animals behaved better than us human beings. What he found was the key to evolution.
Another person who had his mind on this stuff, was Buckminster Fuller. In fact, his best long time, and almost only friend was John Denver. John wrote a sound for him called “What One Man Can Do”. Buck wanted to know how to get people together to talk about their future. He thought of this each day, and was his mission. He felt that he could invent something that would bring people together, and they would talk to each other. he did not force them, just brought them a gizmo that facilitated the conversation amounst them. John denver was quite a guy too. He was the only one China let in with music from the west. I wonder why.
skateboardkid
I will surely check on Kroptkin and his theory.
As for the gathering place, the internet is already such a place. WRH is a place for thousands of people to gather, most of them non-religious, and I feel quite comfortable there.
Schools and universities are places for thousands of people to gather, some religious, some not religious.
Every major anti-war-demonstration are places for thousands to gather, some religious, some not religious and I feel comfortable there.
As for people being misled. It´s not so easy to just question somebody´s belief. First the person must be able to trust you or have heard similar arguments before. It takes for people to change their minds.
You also must take into consideration, that you yourself aren´t always right. Everybody has to revise his own views occasionally, when he is confronted by new information.
You say: Does religion prevent us from growing, and appreciating others and nature?
I say: Sure it does not.
As for abuse, I know personally what you mean, but I don´t blame anybody´s religion for it.
And no, atheist views do not scare me in general, but Malthusian views do.
[...] The Catholic Church and Palestine « Time to Think By Notsilvia Night … again in different forms, either in esoteric or in secular ideologies like the ones of Macchiavelli, Nietzsche, Malthus, Dalton, Mussolini, Hitler, Leo Strauss, Prince Phillip, Richard Perle, David Rockefeller or Henry Kissinger. … Time to Think – http://notsylvia.wordpress.com/ [...]
“Time to think”; or so says the title to the blog…
But the thinking herein must be contained in the framework of what would and should the leaders and followers of mythical beings do and say??
What kind of thinking is that??
Which is exactly the cage that you have built for yourselves, a cage that dooms us all…
Time to kill the myths; its us or them…
Hello Dennis
My thinking must be really limited, since I do not understand what you said or maybe it´s just my limited English.
And no, I don´t think God is a “mythical being” and I just absolutely do not feel caged in by my faith. I actually feel very free, but my guess is, you wouldn´t understand this.
And why exactly are most atheists, I have talked to online, so very intolerant, that they need to “kill” other people´s beliefs.
Isn´t it a sign of insecurity in your own faith, the belief in the non-existence of God, that you have a need to “kill” mine.
Just a thought
[...] Go here to read the rest: The Catholic Church and Palestine « Time to Think [...]
You, in fact, have superimposed your good intentitions and wishful thinking over the ‘church/Vatican, not seeing reality.
Didn’t you just hear that the popiola is calling for a New World Order?
Nah, Nah, he;s NOT the stood of the zionists, nah,… he IS the Owner of them!
And in fact, the “church” or the Vatican or whatever you call it,k has EVERY intention of bringing back the inquisition, as soon as they get control of the governments of tghe world, again. Or didn’t you know either that the Holy Office is still extant? Ratzinger was the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the innocuous name for the vicious, bloody Inquisition!
You, my friend, need to do a great deal of research and learning , for the leaopard (apologies to the 4-legged) hasn’t changed its spots. All you have to do is look at the eyes and expressions of the popiola.
Fool me once, shame on me, fool me……….you can’t fool me again – Arbusto
a Pagan Maverick Rebel Amazon, “Heretic”-
Goddess am I glad to be out of religion while the going was good! he, he, he.
“Isn´t it a sign of insecurity in your own faith, the belief in the non-existence of God, that you have a need to “kill” mine.
Just a thought:
Oh, Please , Pardon me for a little reality here, but wasn”t it christians that FIRST “killed” other Gods? And the people who believed in them? Shamans, priests, practioners of other philosophies. Christians are the ones that slaughtered and slaughtered , with swords , burned at the stakes, and used the real dogs-of-war,black hounds who ate innocent indigenous peoples, including infants? chriwstians killed and killed until the earth was soaked in blood. Read a little about the Cathars, Joan of Arc, Giordano Bruno, and the Witch hunts in Europe, where innocent women AND children of all social strate and ages, were slaughtered.
So who killed who?
At any rate, today, we say, Wee’re Baaaack!
We’ll always be reborn with the fierce spirit of Freedom!
A Gnostic
Hallo Al
The Pope did not call for a NWO in the way the financial Plutocracy want it. On contrary he wants a change of direction into a more democratic world, where national souvereignty is respected, a world where the power comes from below. The Pope does not support a one world government, but he does support rules, which would curtail the financial oligarchy´s means to destroy the world´s economy.
I do read the whole letters, the Pope writes, not just the two sentences “synopsis” the media is presenting as sound-bits.
When I talked about “killing” in the above comment I was just referring to Dennis, who thinks he needs “to kill myths”.
The Christians weren´t the first who killed others for their faith. Actually many of the earlier religions used human sacrifices for their rituals.
Before Christianity became Roman state-religion, Christians were pacifists and it was them who were “slaughtered and slaughtered” by several emperors and their government.
I have read about the Cathars and the witch hunts and so on…
And Al, your religion has always been “back” in some way or other. And in my opinion “the fierce spirit of freedom” you refer to, means only “freedom” for the few and slavery for the many.
Most esoteric religions do not believe in the equal value of human beings. And with that I have a problem.
Notsilvia, I feel the passion and honesty in your words. And they are so moving, thank you very much. I see much defense of “being Catholic” not only from you, but other posters. I, for one, cannot comprehend how anyone could call themselves a Catholic after all of the tribulation your church has been through.
Pedophilia and the Catholic Church have become one and the same. While I admire your adherence to the doctrine, I am still in constant “awe” at the irony. So may lives have been ruined by priests indiscretions of young and innocent boys and girls, I cannot express my revulsion quite enough. Nonetheless, I hear you through my wanton ears.
I have tried to show compassion for organized religion, as I do adhere to the doctrine of “we are not truly responsible for who we are.” We cannot choose our parents, our race, our geographic birthplace, our heritage or history. Nor can we truly choose our ability to discern or lead or follow. It all just “is.” That said, there still lies a tremendous responsibility upon our race to survive. And our race is the most important race ever to approach the finish line which is rapidly gaining on us.
There is no place for “hate” in this race and those who think there “is” have only not evolved. It is a simple matter, now, for us to realize that when someone “shits in the pool” that everyone in the pool is fouled to some degree. By the same analogy, when a fish pisses in the ocean, same, same. What humans have not understood wholly to this point in our evolution, is that the exact same thing applies to our earth and her environment. Yes, we’ve developed techniques for expelling human waste of the physical, but not for the spiritual or existential. Hence, it is all around us in every space that you can possibly occupy. Just as in the “pool” it is inescapable unless you have the good sense to “get out of the pool.” And unfortunately, we are not given the tools to get out of the pool by our leaders and controllers. However, the tools do exist. They have hidden the “ladder” from us for 6000 years. They need us to stay in the pool, so they can continue to manipulate us, control us and profit from our ignorance.
Ignorance that THEY created. that THEY manifested, that THEY nurtured and that THEY’ve now come face to face with. THEY, Notsylvia, didn’t figure one thing into to their plan. The Bible refers to it as the Revelation, or the Apocalypse. Yes, I’ll admit that some Holy Books contain useful information. But I call it the WORLD WIDE WEB.
Thanks to citizen information and journalism, we now, for the first time in human history, modern or otherwise, have the truth at our fingertips. The list of religious slaughters you referred to were all, ALL, about the eradication of information. Until the printing press was invented in 1833, virtually ALL information was controlled by organized religion and distributed via the priests, preachers, imams, holy men and snake oil salesmen. Then, in 1833 and with the ability to produce mass printed materials without the use of scribes and scribblers, “freedom of the press” was born. Oh, if were only true.
Organized religions were now forced, against their will, to provide “documentation” of what they’d been revealing to their flocks for the “flock’s” interpretation. Oh my! But not to worry, with the help of government and the need to “control” all was well handled by the supreme controllers by immediately and completely placing well trusted “minders” in positions to continue their charade. It didn’t happen overnight, but it happened. So whew…they STILL had control over virtually ALL information to ALL that mattered. And they reveled in their ability to continue to project the fallacies that “The Lost City of Atlantis” was a myth and that “no one really knew how on earth the pyramids of Egypt or anywhere else were built or who built them or why. The Seven Wonders of the World, right?
Hardly. They know and they knew and they have built this world on protecting that knowledge. They have enslaved you and me using systems of religion, fear, hate and ignorance. Every war, EVERY WAR EVER, has been to cull the herd, reap the financial rewards, and to them, they were doing a service to mankind. Why? WHY??????? Because if you are that STUPID, you need to be GONE and take your gene pool with you. I kid you not, while wishing I was.
Disgusted yet? Well, calm down. They are human beings just like us. Yet, they were born in to families and “bloodlines” of families that were empowered by those before them. They cannot help that anymore than you can help being who, what, where and why YOU are. It just IS.
They were enabled at birth to be the controllers of the herd, and though many stones have been thrown in their path, their complete mastery of information has served them well.
Until now.
I like to call it “Hiroshima’s Revenge.” Imagine the mind of the man who ordered the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima Japan, knowing that there would be up to a million, did I say a MILLION?, innocent human beings fried to a crisp.
Women on there way to the laundry and children on there way to school, were petrified in step by this horrific and terrorist event. Yet we, at least in America, were all raised to believe that “it was the only humane way to end the war.”
‘Scuse the eff outta me but, HUH?” And yet, we fell for it. thanks to Life Magazine, Time, Newsweek, the New York Times and 80% of everything you could read in the US at the time, WE FELL FOR IT. C’mon now!
That is almost, and I said ALMOST, as ridiculous as saying that “Jesus died for you sins.” Wha…?
Wait a frickin’ minute here. MLK, JFK, RFK, and maybe Joh Lennon died for my sins, but some dud 2000 years ago? No, sir. HE, died, according to the word of GOD, because he ran the money changers from the Temple . . . and wouldn’t repent. He was thrown in the pokey, would NOT repent or acquiesce to the demands of the Romans who obviously WANTED to release him to avoid a civic uprising if we are to believe what we read (hmm), and refused. So, he was crucified.
BUT NOT FOR MY SINS! I DIDN”T EVEN HAVE ANY YET, you?
So, now that I’m certain that I have offended the many Christians, Jews, Catholics and Muslims on this site, I will turn my ire to one last group.
Zionists.
THEY are THEM.
Peace.
Truthman
And as I didn’t address the ME problem above, I must now. The information control I speak of is manifested in this one, oft heard remark . . . “They haven’t gotten along in 2000 years, and that’s not gonna change now or ever.”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is a total and wholly fabricated result of the (dis) information that you and I have been fed by the western media. The jews, muslims and christians congregated quite successfully in Palestine until the Balfour Declaration of 1948 in which the West won the war and the Zionists were awarded the theretofore sovereign nation of Palestine.
WTF? So WHO really won the war? The ones who PAID for it, that’s who. The Zionists. They win EVERY war because they start them all and pay for them all and fight them NONE.
They are “entitled” by some ridiculous notion that allows them to lie, cheat, steal and murder at will. Although those don’t seem to be “human” traits to me, they must be.
Zionism is the most racist and hateful political movement (seems more like a bowel movement) and is a curse to humanity. Their “ends justify the means” and “pre-emptive war” doctrines should be enough of an example for any human being to realized that it is a self-destructive enterprise.
This MUST BE STOPPED, if humanity is to survive.
So, “HUG A ZIONIST” every time you get a chance. They need to realize that when they foul the pool, it fouls it for everyone and themselves as well. And even though violence seems to be the only action that they understand, I know from personal experience that “love” moves and is creative and infectious as well. Knowledge does the same. Love and knowledge are the truth and the way.
No more myths. No more lies. No more deception.
Only love and knowledge.
Peace.
Truthman
hallo truthman
The priest scandal, in my opinion, started with the sexual revolution in the 1970s. At that time the “sex is never a sin” opinion entered parts of the Church. There were even a few “converts” who became priest solely for the purpose of selling the “sex is never a sin” conzept to Catholics.
When the scandal broke after 2002, most cases were decades old. And they happened mostly in a few dioceses, the ones were the “no sin” crowds had gathered.
The Church should have handed over the “priests” to the authorities. I think that it happened at all was really terrible.
But I also think that the reason the scandal was rehashed over and over in the American media was retaliation for the Church´s stand against the Iraq war.
And I very glad the Church kept and is keeping her anti-war-stand in spite of being black-mailed in this way.
It´s funny you mention Hiroshima on this topic. The pilot of the second plane throwing an atomic bomb on Nagasaki was actually told to use the church steeple of Nagasaki as aim. The bomb killed the largest Christian community in Japan in a single blow.
While the Church had political power in the middle ages, those power was sometimes abused. Afterwards it were the secular authorities, aristicrats, capitalists, fascists, communists, who abused their powers against the peoples they ruled. The problem is power, which corrupts, not religion or securarism per se.
True religion is always organized religion, since religion means also community otherwise you would call it a personal spirituality.
Community means cooperation between people, common efforts, strengthening one another. I sometimes have the feeling the attack against “organized religion” is motivated by a wish to destroy the communities which can oppose today´s financial oligarchies.
Esoteric religions believe that power must come down from the top, egalitarian and universal religions, like Christianity and Islam, belief, power in the commmunity must come from the people.
Different religions can get along with one another, if they respect one another. No matter what others, who play the “divide and conquer”-game do to hinder it, Christians, Muslims and Buddhists and members of other universal and egalitarian religions do get along in most places in the world. Religious people can even get along with secular people very well, if both sides show each other some tolerance. In real life I have seen this many times.
You all make excellent points concerning religion and its’ ability to cultivate, as well as brutilize, our fellow man. It does seem however that one constant remains true for both Christianity and Judaism – its believe that they are the “chosen ones” This is especially true for the narcisistic belief structure of Zionism, which, through the state power of Israel, continually manifests itself in a hedonistic orgy of blood-letting, of itself as well as the non-chosen ones.
However, to truly understand the situation one must understand that the Israelis are themselves the victim of a wider and more poswerful enemy that implanted the belief structure of Zionism into the heart of the Middle East as a cancer whose purpose was spread and then to “divide and conqer” all three of the Western Monotheistic religions and cultures of the area. Surely Royal British Petrolium and Royal Dutch Shell bennifited the most from the crime of the British sponsored Balfour Declaration. Whenever a crime is committed – and in this case, continually perpetrated – one must always ask the question, “Qui Bono”, or, “who benefits”.
The true root of this bastadization of religion is institutional power. Religion, when co-opted by men evil, or ignorant men seeking power and wealth, has the ability to to turn otherwise rational men into herded sheep lead to the slaughter.
The Catholic Church has played nothing but an impotent part in healing this divide within Western Culture. Unfortunately, the Church, like most all institutions of power, has something to benefit from the internal divides of the Muslim faith, which is still the fastest growing religion in the world, and which perhaps now even posseses more adherents than the Christian Faith.
Indeed, the Catholic Church, since its pre-emption into the Roman Empire by virtue of it becoming Rome’s state religion, is the institutional enbodiment of the ancient religion of Mithra, with the supposed history and symbology of “Christianity”‘ superimposed within Mithra’s belief stuctures, rituals, and institutional hierarchy. For example, those silly hats and gowns the Pope and Cardinals wear have nothing to do with Jesus of Nazareth, and everything to do with the ancient priesthood of Mithra. Please understand this fact from a person who has seventeen years of Catholic education. Only recently was I forced to divest myself from its rituals and begin to see the Church for what it is, a human force for both good and evil in the world.
One could see this clearly in the Pope’s – the Vicar of Rome -recent visit to the Middle East. Ask yourself, if you are a true Christian and follower of the teachings of Jesus as most plainly pronounced at the Sermon on the Mount, would you have visited sites of supposed historical significance while cavorting with powerful people who perpetrate evil, and then meakly pronounce impotent words of peace, justice and brotherhood as their evil continues unabbated beside you. Or, to ask the question more bluntly, would Jesus have done so, or would he force himself into Gaza and proclaim to all the world “here I stand amongst my brothers who are today suffering the worlds mightiest injustices. Come follow me, and together we will right this injustice now”. His visit had more to do with institutional symbology of power than working to bring justice to humanity.
This artificial divide between Judaism, Christianity and Islam has is fostered and perpetrated institutional power by those who seek to keep man enlaved to belief forms, rituals, and institutions that serve no purpose as we enter the 21st Century.
Indeed, the inquisition was fought against those who sought to free humanity from the institutional throes that Europes fuedalism, and the financial control of the Venetian olicarchy – who were themselves the bankers for both the corrupted Vatican as well as Europes fuedal elite. This enslavement of the masses for the bennifit of the few lead Europe and Christianity into financial and cultural ruin. This financial enslavement then lead to what is called the Dark Ages. Its educational and financial strangulation of the creative and productive powers of the masses soon lead to its own breakdown, which resulted in the plague, and then lead to the decimation of over half the the population of Europe.
During this time period only Moorish Spain was spared this disaster as Islam spread education, the arts, agriculture and the sciences throughout the regions under its control. During this time period Jews, Christians and Muslims worked peacefully together to form the most prosperous society the world had known. The city of Toledo, known as the city of three cultures, was the epitomy of this successful fusion of the three religions. Islam had forbid usury, and money was placed at the service of man, not man at the service of the moneyed elite. Thus proper sanitation, potable water, and abundant infrasture and agriculture spared this area from the death and degradations of the rest of
Europe
The spread of this brand of Islam soon lead to the re-organization of “Christian” Europe, and the money elite to sponsor the arrainged marriage of Isabella “the Catholic” and Ferdinand in order to unite the Catholic states to resist the spread of Islam in Europe. The inquisition in Spain was not meant to merely eliminate Catholic heritics and Jews, but more importantly to vanish from Europe the Islam of Mudejar Spain, and re-assert the power and control of the “christian” money elite. The insurmountable indebtedness the Spanish crown incurred during this process lead to the injustices of the new world throughout the Spanish areas of control. No matter how much gold and silver was stolen from the inhabitants of the America’s, and no matter how manner indiginous people and important Africans were enslaved, the insatiable debt incurred by Spain remained unpayable. Thus Spain, despite these riches, destroyed itself for hundreds of years, and only recently has recovered from its position as the poor of Europe.
Europe, and America are now headed in the same direction. Institutionalized religion is playing the same role, now as then. Usuary, and cultural stagnation and xenophobia are leading us in this direction. The financial system is again teteering at the precipice of disintegration due to the same effects of financial usuary and lack of proper infrastucture, healthcare, agriculture and technilogical and industrial development. If a new Dark Age is to be averted, we must learn this lesson of history, and representatives of the three Monotheistic religions must work not for their own institutional power, but for the development of the creative powers of all humanity for the benefit of all, not the financial and institutional elite.
You are right in that during the times of the Spanish Moores, the Muslim people were technologically more advanceded than the Christians. Was this the reason for the plague, who knows? Lack of hygiene might have.
As for the rest I think you are wrong.
In Spain the rulers were Muslims, the middle class of merchants and administrators were Jewish and the peasants were Christians. When the upper classes don´t have the same religion as the lower, this will always mean exploitation. And the peasants could not ask their rulers to show mercy in their tax demands “in the name of Christ”.
Muslims normally don´t think that Christians have “bastardized” religion.
All other questions I already answered.
Why is it that people who “believe” (as though others don’t cherish things beyond themselves), rationalize, avoiding any confrontation of their thoughts.
It would be like if a guy came to my house wearing a shirt with a picture of george bush on it. What he stands for is bad, wether or not if he is aware of his crimes. The man wearing the shirt would ask me to prove it. I would prove it, and he would just pick another thing for me to prove. At one time, you would think he would question things. But he does not.
It is one thing to be curious, but if what you stand for “does harm”, then anyone should be able to ask them to stop. You do not need a consensus.
And talking about rationalization, how can anyone write a paper on evolution, or hold this discussion; when they cling on to beliefs in idols.
What would it take for another to shake your beliefs. And why is it that allot of priests (catholic) question their faith. I met it is common to question things that you are close to (and when others never question, such as the followers).
Over here, adds are now run on Tv, that say a religious lawyer will help you. Thus with God’s help. I mean, how far is this going to go. All the people who died from this nonsense.
You guys are in deep conflict; and it looks like me, and allot of other good folks are going to continue to suffer while you sort this out.
I say prove it. Show me your god. Show me what good he had done. Prove he has not made people to use his name in doing harm on this Earth. I can prove nature’s creation.
Why don’t you believe in yourselves, and neighbor. Until you can do that; you are just piddling around. Meanwhile, the businesses who control governments, are going to continue to use your Beliefs to get into others countries, steal their resources, and kill the people.
Look up the story of Hispanolia. The Spanish killed everyone on this island by burning them, all woman, and children. The priest (catholic), asked the governor if he would take God as his idol. The governor asked if all the soldiers that came with this priest; he asked the man if they were catholic. Then the man quickly said with out hesitation ” I do not know your god, nor do I want him. If this is what he stands for—Death”
Yes, I am wrong allot of the time. But I actually look in the mirror when rethinking things. There are reasons why we cling to a false idea. If you were involved in domestic abuse, then you must be aware of the head games, the acting, the lying, the pretending, the wanting to please another; get real. See what your beliefs are doing. And as far as saying that atheists are pushy. Well, the way I, and the birds see it; you are the one pushing beliefs here. You are the one in denial. You are the one reaching out, feeling helpless, confused, and simply wanting to talk with others about your problems.
I have no problem with this. You are the one cherry picking information from life around you, from these posts, and through the years you will not question things. And when write a article like this, you are only fooling yourself. And no, most people on this Earth do not believe in God. In fact, there is a major decline in this nonsense beliefs around the world today. One day, we will be rid of this, and will then be honest with ourselves, and see how each of us IS the problem.
Sorry for writing in a frustrated tone. It is just that it is hard to “nip the stuff off at the bud”. When you look up (and not cherry pick) words like: reality, truth, beliefs, fact, copping mechanisms, and so forth; you see that we can not be so cocky with another. We should stand more humble. And this is a major reason that this belief thing; stinks.
A meeting place to conterbalance the many churches that are just for you, and not regular nature people like myself. We need a place that all people can go to. The places you mentioned, have not done a thing to get people to practice civics (especially the church).
I have two catholic priests as customers. I spent time with both; but one, we hung out for about 25 hours in a brief period of time.
Both of these MEN, told me that church is a business, and that priests question God more than anyone because they see that he has no presence on this Earth. It was like confession, you could see thier body posture, and facial expressions as they said this. As though I was harmless, and safe for them to finally say out loud what they truly believe.
Furthermore, I am named after an Italian priest from my family. I was the first to attend public schools, and not catholic school. I have actually read the bibles, and questioned them, as any animal would their environment. I have seen how religion gives false hope, prevents people from going to the soyse of thir problems; often themselves. I have seen people kept in physically abusive relationships involving small children and firing guns at them inside the house; and religion says to stay married despite this horrific violence. You see, I can talk about my problems; why can you not? That is sign of reflecting, healing, and learning. It is also our primitive animal insticts, that tell you which is up, and what is down.
Reread the stuff, and stop cherry picking. And just so you know. Well, you already know that I am not good at passing my seriuos thoughts to another. But, I do know about propaganda, myself, and how others pretend. But, just like smart people once told me; you have to be ready to learn; and I was not ready. You have to be confronted with something big, that you can not rationalize, or run from. This is when you begin to learn; when your guard is down. In fact, there is a guy from the 60′s, who used LSD to get people to stop drinking alchohol. He had a 100 percent cure rate on about 200 people. he trick was this; the acid made people reflect their own faults. Thus, the drinking stoped, when the person stopped pretending and avoiding the truth. Then there was no need for beliefs/hiding.
I really hope you think about some of what I said. All of us, have something to contribute. And I promise that I will try harder to say things in a better way. I am here practicing, so give me a chance. Just as I want you to have a chance to have your curiosity answered with use of your article.
There is so much out there. I just don’t see people respecting it. I have a heavy biology background, and I have always gone the other direction at the fork in the road. It is a bumpy ride. But, I honestly feel that a person would learn more my doing this, than just going along with the others. This is actually the checks and balance for evolution. That some will try something different. And that others may follow along if it looks like it is a better path.
I also think that if what we are all doing leads to this (where the world is today), then we should do just the oppossite of what we had been doing; in order to get a different/better outcome.
skateboardkid
I think you are wrong.
And I also think, that we have gone way off topic. The topic was, the Catholic church and Palestine.
And were those “priests” you hang out with maybe the same two who were responsible for the sex-abuse scandal?
With this kind of attitude I wouldn´t be surprised.
It is hard to put into words. If you invited me to church with you; I would find it a little awkward. Often, church has rituals that make a guest feel like it is over the top. Then when these people talk to you, it is as though they are wiser, and better than you. Even in their beliefs, it says this. This pressure, or pushyness; is no way to pass a good idea to a stranger. The definition of a “gentleman, is a person who thinks of their guests needs before their own”.
To flip it around; it would be like me hosting a gathering about science; and I have all the quests swing in trees, hug trees, and so forth. Then imagine years down the road, you come as a guest and see all this awkward behavior. You would question it, and maybe even say something. But as we both know from personal experience, you would be lashed out at, made fun of, anything to take credit away from your confrontation. You also see thins big time in politics.
skateboardkid
I never invited you to church. Why should I, you don´t like church.
I wouldn´t go tree-hugging on your science conference either.
Truthman,
You are the greatest. It is so hard to put this manipulating stuff into words when all those who need to listen; squirm, and twist the truth around until one’s head spins. I saw this behavior in addiction; just as I was putting it all together, Bush was TAKING office. To make things worse, I live in the middle of it all, and everyone down here, refuses to talk about anything important. And that my friend; is what made me most curious of all.
I really tried to convey here, was exactly what you said. In fact, my whole life, I have been trying to come up with similiar words to my abusive family, and their enablers (always those enablers); and you summed up the beginning to end, just perfectly. It become part of closure, when trying to get out of all this mess. It makes your head spin.
I speak up like you do; when it is not popular. It also will drive people away; I guess they get scared when being almost forced to rethink their beliefs. Or maybe, we all just don’t want to feel duped. For me, I feel that I am just now starting to learn things; like there are no boundries. I want others to see this too. But it is not a belief, it is very real. almost too real. It is also so very simple. It is manipulation, fear, denial; and I see how government, the mafia, and religion, all use fear, to get them money, and a job.
Our friend that wrote this article, and provided this forum; really is a good guy. All I was trying to say, is we need a place that we all can talk about things (no format). And that one should be able to stand in front, and speak to everyone there. You know, talk about the town’s problems. And if someone new moves to town; we would be eager to learn something new here; so we invite him to speak, and share. Instead, I have to become a member, and I don’t see anyone regular people talking to the crown about the town’s problems.
The other thing was this. If you have an answer for everything; everything is explained by a book; then it is a darn shame. It takes away the journey to finding out things. And yes, it makes for a scary path. But it it is also exciting, and more likely to create change in one’s lives. That’s what we need. Just the opposite of what we are doing now.
I really think I had been on topic, while posting here. I was trying to get to the topic of fudulmentalism (man, I know that is not the right spelling). That is what is done in war. You have to get someone to hate another, before they will occupy your land in war. I mean, you have to really feed some lies to get someone to kill a total stranger. If you remove the details of the fight, it is reduced to the truth. It is layer on top of layers; of lies. I see it as enabling, shock, denial, rationalization; all the grieving done, like in abuse and addiction.
I have met a great Jewish doctors here, who stood up in the hospital lunch room, and told the others how ashamed they should feel for sitting down and doing nothing for the people of Palestine.
It is so bad, what the Israel, and all of us are doing to these people. How do you stop it. How do you speak louder than their (media/government/business) lies.
I am around both very good people, and very bad people. And I try to get something from meeting either. You wont learn from surrounding yourself with no one who challenges you. You also don’t want to listen to one side of the news. Nor do you stay quiet, when something wrong is being done while in front of you.
There comes a point in every discussion, when people just have to walk away with the conclusion: “We agree to disagree.”
Something you can´t do, is seriously challenge my faith, I´ve heard all the arguments before, many times before.
I promised to answer any questions, I haven´t promised to become converted to your faith. But converting me to atheism wasn´t actually the real purpose of the whole exercise, was it?
Your views aren´t very popular with me, but they sure are very popular with a lot of people who post or comment on the internet. You are not a lonely rebel, a Galileo fighting for scientific truth at the moment. You belong to a very large crowd of people, so don´t feel lonely. You don´t have to talk to yourself so much either. And certain rhetoric tricks are old, too.
Should I feel flattered, that you take so much effort on my tiny blog, which next to nobody reads anyway?
I met some of your friends on an internet forum several years ago. (It was a relatively big forum, so I guess it was indeed more than one.)
They called me and the other anti-war-people on the forum “dogs”, who should have been kept on a leech, since now we were turning around and bite our betters.
This was six years ago and I was naive and shocked then, I´ve grown up by now.
But I would ask you, have you ever wondered yourself, if you are doing the right thing, or does it just pay so good money, that you don´t care.
I think you are on the loosing side. The “divide and conquer” just won´t work any more.
And your ruthless ethnocentrism endangers your own people.
Do you never feel ashamed of what you are doing or what is being done in your name?
I mean, the mass-killing of civillians and then those callous t-shirts, it´s like you are indeed showing the whole world the finger.
How can you still feel morally superior to the rest of us?
I know, I know your “religion”, whatever it is, has different ethics than mine.
But think about it. The golden rule was formulated by Confucius 500 years before Christ. And it definitely existed since the dawn of homo sapiens.
If you want to live with people in peace, you just can´t treat them like crap.
This is what caused all the problems in the past. Why don´t you try to understand.
I´m not your “eternal” enemy, neither are the rest of the Catholics or the Muslims or “the nations”.
Don´t you understand, you are losing the propaganda-war. It doesn´t matter, what I do or what you try. And it was your people, who started this propaganda-war, not us. What you are doing over there is indefensible. And I think even you know it, that´s why you need all this propaganda.
It´s time for you to hop off the band-waggon of insane paranoia and hatred for everyone else and join the rest of humanity. And you don´t have to join any church for that.
Come on, you can do it.
It´s easy.
Just jump.
We will catch you, you won´t get hurt.
You should also be grateful, that one of the main principles of Christianity is forgiveness, and the Catholic church actually means it.
Paranoia is not a healthy and not a happy feeling. Do you want to give it to your children and grand-children forever?
Don´t you want a better life for them, a happier life, a life without paranoia?
We are no dogs, neither are you.
We are human beings and so are you.
Come on, we can survive together.
Look around you, isn´t the world beautiful? It would be even more beautiful, if you wouldn´t have to be afraid all the time.
If you become friends with the world your supremacism will disappear, but so will your fear.
It´s worth it, believe me, if you can. And if you can´t I won´t hate you, either.
Sometimes it takes a very long time to overcome indoctrination. Indoctrination makes you near blind and deaf to reason.
But reason can go through the smallest hole. One day it might take root in you. I hope so.
Of course, when the time comes, it will hurt a bit. You will realize, that you have done things, that are really wrong. But the pain will end, and then there will be relief.
So when the times comes, there will be a lot of people on this side of the fence to greet you in friendship.
Dude,
You have twisted what I say to the max. I never said that I like war, or support war. I said that we are being lied to by others, who do want war. I have lost many customers because I speak out for the truth. And I am speaking out to the ones who are doing bad. But you know, we are all doing bad but allowing our public servants continue the war path for money, and resources.
Your tiny blog reaches people, and people do read it. I talked with you here; and thought that you are wonderful for not deleting pour posts.
But, you must be searching, or curios; because you wrote this article. I was never rude to you, yet you tell me that I am forcing you to convert. I say convert to what; reality, truth. Surely the laws of nature is not a cult.
You know nothing about me to judge. I talk to everyone, about the important stuff. Most are eager to listen to someone who actually cares.
I have never been in a fight with another person; and never own a gun. There is nothing you could tell me, that would make me hate another bad enough to kill them during war. In fact, I was never in the military. Furthermore, I am not just a talker. I have been on public radio telling others how we can fix our country. One idea was to stop having elections; we should have a lottery for these positions where all can win and thus represent truly the people’s interests.
You were the one trying to tell us, tell us that there is a God, and that what do we do now with Palastine. I say you learn aboutv people, and the one;s who manipulate people. And religion is a big time manipulator. It is also the sorce of too much bllod shed. But I guess you have an excuss for all the killing your beliefs/religion/and followers have done, and will do in the future.
If you read what is there, and not what you just want to see; you will have your answers. But it looks like you are yound, and in denial. Meanwhile, all of us have to carry the burden while you sort this out. And that my friend, is unfair to all of us. If what you believe stays there, and does not hurt others; then go for it. But, if what you believe in herts others; then you need to evolve to a nicer outlook on your surroundings. I mean, we do live in modern times. And we have all seen what you have done, and where it leads us. I say we now do something different; and let a normal person steer the ship now.
I hope you can sort this all out. Talking about it is the first step. Then shock, lashing out in denial, and later acceptance. It is allot to swallow, when you find out that you are the problem, and not the other way around.
Peter Kropoktin was an atheist, and criticized various religious beliefs.
If you were sincere about getting new ideas; then you would not trample on the people who post here; particularly the “believe in something bigger than God” people.
But I see your self righteousness will not let you listen to others. That is why you guys are dangerous to us all. You do what you want, despite the harm to others. And you do not back down when others ask you to. This is not a format for learning. This is your propaganda, and enabling of a very dark matter.
I say you have this forum all over again, and remain quiet; and listen. Drink a beer, and let your guard down. The fact that you say that your belief is strong; means that it is also blind. If it were strong, then you would have questions. Your mind was made up before writing this article. Me, on the other hand; my knowledge is always questioned, reframed, beliefs changed accordingly when new facts come into play. It is a humble person who is smart; the “know it all’s” are the one’s who are afraid to admit their lack of knowledge.
Persistant, aren´t you?
You must know, that by now nobody reads this anymore but me. Nobody reads comments so far down, we are all alone here.
So what about quitting the game-playing, or are you being monitored?
You haven´t been in the military, you tell me. I thought military service was obligatory in your corner.
You tell me you don´t hate anybody enough to kill him, but do you feel sorry for those who are getting killed?
I´ve been to your corner of the world and I´ve see what has been done to the people there. I was horrified, how can you treat others like this? How?
I´ve never seen this kind of racism before. I thought it wasn´t possible anymore in this day and age. It is absolutely beyond me.
You call me self-righteous and that I would justify what my religion has done?
I don´t, though I do look at things from a historic perspective.
I´ve read Shahak and others. He writes what led for instance to the Spanish inquisition. No matter what you think about the Catholics reconquering Spain, but trying to overthrow the current domestic government with a group of invading foreigners has always been considered treason.
But I do not justify the violence and the torture. As I wrote, I do not justify any violence the Church has done in the past. And the Church herself has come to the conclusion, that every time, when she tried to solve any of her problems with the use of violence, things went from bad to worse.
That´s why the Church opposes the use of violence for political purposes no matter how justified.
And the Church has apologized remember. But apologies must be accepted for healing to occur.
Hanging on to 500 year old grudges doesn´t solve anything, it makes things worse.
The trouble is with these grudges, it can indeed make people self-righteous and then the insanity of today is happening.
One day you will have to face what has been done in your name. Even, if you haven´t done it personally, it´s being done by the system you work for.
You know, you fascinate me. I always wanted to know, what makes people tick who do the job you do, I mean “plumbing”. One of your friends told me, he was a “plumber”, I don´t remember, if it was right after or before he was calling me a dog.
But you are right, you haven´t been really been impolite considering who you work for.
You think I´m dangerous?
It´s not me, that´s dangerous, it´s what your people are doing that´s dangerous to yourself.
It´s true, I know nothing about you, only your job. But doesn´t this kind of job say a lot about a person?
Here it might be nothing more than a game the two of us are playing right now, but out there people are suffering and dying every day.
It´s no game.
I ask you again, jump of the band-waggon. In the end you will better, it always does, when one is on the right side of justice, decency and honesty.
And if you don´t want to change your mind, why bother with me. My blog is really tiny, very few readers, it´s not worth your effort.
Peace
i’m not sure where to begin
we have the same father
our mother is the earth
we are all gods’ children
from the moment of our birth
how we treat each other
is how we will be judged
you can call yourself
whatever you like
a point i won’t begrudge
you’ve been given gifts sublime
but not for waging war
can’t you see i trust in you
to realize what they’ re for?
can’t you see your the hope
the worlds been waiting on?
when are you going to cut the bs
put an end to the endless con?
when will you find the courage
to trust in the good of a man
that you haven’t met and never will
if you continue with this plan
how can you judge another
and give yourselves a pass
picking off folks helicopter gun ship
always seemed a little too crass
if you want to kill a man
you must look him in the eye
put your hands around his neck
and listen to his cry
listen to his pleading
‘i’m not ready to die’
take his life into your hands
and let his spirit fly
then you will see his sorrow
then you will see his fear
you should know better after all
when death is always near
it’s just a suggestion i’ll throw out
and only for what it’s worth
why don’t you give those nukes up
save yourself and the rest of this earth
and this goes for all of ‘us’
[...] The Catholic Church and Palestine [...]
II understand The catholic Church is pastoral not political but i fear its easy to sit in comfort secure in the west and comment on Israel and its peoples reaction to barbaric persicution.
firstly I believe many are supporting a group of people whose chief aim is the total obliteration of Israel and its people and no these people are not just Hammas or other terrorist groups one just needs to look at the PA rhetori and School books to see this is not so.
It is not funny when a rocket comes through your roof when your Kids are playing with their lego and tell me please how discriminating is a nail packed bomb when it goes off on an Israeli municipal bus?
The denial of israe legitamate history and claim to the land called ‘occupied’ is a disgrace for the world and the church.
During the Holocaust many christian nations stood by as millions where slaughtered and Germany at that time was supposedly a Christian nation.
Do we in the west want to o dow in History as as holocaust enablers yet again?
That is the aim of the arab world towards Israel at present this conflict is not about disputed land or percieved historical injustice ita about Anti- Semitism disguised as Anti-Zionism to give those that hate israel and the Jewish people legitamicy for their racism.
Hundreds of rockets and hundreds of Municipal buse blown up mainly in Tel-Aviv not empty buses buses packed with Men,Women and Children.
If this wasGlasgow,LIverpool,Manchester or any of our other bastions of liberalism what would be the reaction?
As a Catholic I will not accept or condone Hypocracy or evil in any way shape or form.
As for our ‘Academics’ their bias is so palpable it is sickening.
Nor will I deny That the Israeli people are living in their land or that Jerusalem is their Capital to apease any terrorist nation or group.
Do you want another Iran on Israels border?
Would you want such a state next to you one that desired only you and your peoples destruction?
Why do you ignore Darfur and those persicuted by terrorists worldwide by those that wish to rule by terror and and to dominate others because they feel they are superior to use two of their favourite words?
Is your concience that selective?
The catholic church like all ChristianChurches is charged by the word of God to oppose evil not to facilitate or enable it.
Do we in the west really want to go down in History as having enabled another holocaust on the Jewish people?
At present that does appear to me not just as a practicing Catholic but as a human being with a God given concience to be the road the world is going down again.
I believe in peace but not at any cost not to appease those who would deny a nations existance or desire the complete eradication of a people and its history.
Perhaps we should be more concerned with the persicution of Christian in the holy land particularly in Jerusalem where Christians and other minorities are being ethnically cleansed.
Or dont they matter in the politics of the world or he church?
I think many in our churches need to hang their heads in shame.
Hallo Niklas
I agree with you terrorist attacks targeting civilians are always evil and inexcusable. They were evil when the Jewish immigrants to Palestine in the 1940w started to attack Palestinian market places and civilian neighborhoods to scare them into leaving Palestine as well as when they blew up the King David Hotel. They were evil when the Jewish army, the Haganah, mass-murdered the Palestinian people of Deir Yassim and so forced the terrorized Palestinian people out of large parts of their homeland. They were evil when the Israeli army over and over again dropped hundred and thousand pound bombs on civilian neighborhoods or leveled refugee camps. They are evil when Israeli soldiers shoot little children or trample on them with their feet until their bones are broken. They are evil when Israeli soldiers kick pregnant women in the belly. They are evil when the Israeli air-force drops thousands and thousands of bombs on the caged in population of Gaza, when they also gas them with chemical weapons.
I agree, it is terrible when bombs reign on the roofs over the heads of your children or when your child´s school gets leveled, a school where you and your whole family and all your neighbors have sought refuge from the bombing reign on your homes. This happened in Gaza, not in Israel.
True Hamas had sent suicide bombers to blow themselves up in crowded Israeli buses or in front of shopping centers and this was also inexcusable. But they haven´t done that for many years, instead Hamas has become a political party and an elected government. However Israel has not stopped its terrorism against the Palestinian people and has in 2006 commited similar crimes against the Lebanese people. And as we know now, Israeli via the Mossad spy organization is also responsible for several murderous terrorist attacks against Iranian scientists and bystanders, while at the same time supporting Iranian terrorist groups which blow up mosques and Syrian terrorist groups which blow up trains and fuel stations.
The Catholic church is opposed to any form of terrorism, including state-sponsored terrorism by militaries and militias